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Enmity Table

Last Updated: 8/27/2010
    
 
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 研究 Research
    
    
 ダメージ Damage Dealt Enmity
    
   Damage Taken Enmity
    
 ケアル Cure Enmity
    
    
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  Bard
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  Dragoon
  Summoner
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  Samurai
  Blue Mage
  Corsair
  Puppetmaster
  Dancer
  Scholar

Comments

( 79 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>
(Anonymous)
Nov. 11th, 2007 07:57 am (UTC)
thanks
sorry to say, i havent done any testing, just wanted to say thanks for doing this, among other things, it really explains why pld/nin with haste gear tanks so well. i'd really like to see all the cure spells mapped out, but since i dont have time to test (just bought a house and have to completely remodel it, sorry Illuminati) i cant demand much! keep up the good work all, glad i had a night to read all this.

Phemduk - Diabolos - Illuminati - 75 Pld, 75 War, aspiring blm
shirizaan
Nov. 12th, 2007 11:30 am (UTC)
Given that VE decays at a rate of 300/5s, Provoke is looking like a poor alternative for hate generation beyond the initial bump. Without some manner of generating CE the tank will quickly lose hate... And when you add in -25 CE for shadow loss with Utsusemi the numbers begin to draw an interesting conclusion:

DRK is a better sub for NIN in terms of hate generation and in turn, tanking.
(Anonymous)
Nov. 12th, 2007 09:47 pm (UTC)
The thing about VE is that total VE decays at a rate of 60 units per second. This can be tested easily by a WAR/MNK. They will get 1800VE from Provoke, 300VE from Boost #1, and 300VE from Boost #2. The total time to loose hate to someone with <60CE will be 40 seconds instead of 30 seconds with just Provoke.

-Ryoii/Nonomii
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Nov. 12th, 2007 09:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Nov. 12th, 2007 10:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - amlaruil - Nov. 16th, 2007 04:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Mar. 3rd, 2008 10:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kanican - Mar. 3rd, 2008 11:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Nov. 12th, 2007 06:16 pm (UTC)
Taking the nin/drk example, what difference in enmity might occur if sleep were resisted, as opposed to it landing fully? A test with higher level mob for this case would be harder to set up.
kanican
Nov. 12th, 2007 07:42 pm (UTC)
As far as I can tell, whether a spell resist, has "no effect", or lands - the enmity generated will be the same.

The only exception we've found to this is Bind - it seems to have some type of hate reset when "Bind effect wears".
Bind - mojopojo_ffxi - Nov. 17th, 2007 03:16 am (UTC) - Expand
CE generated through damage - (Anonymous) - Mar. 30th, 2009 08:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Nov. 12th, 2007 08:41 pm (UTC)
Thanks and Future Plans?
First and foremost: a huge thank you for taking the initiative and time out of your ffxi gameplay to start something of this magnitude.

Secondly: Do you have any future plans to include a simplified model for nukes/cures and other spells that generate a variable amount of enmity? If so, how can I help?
kanican
Nov. 12th, 2007 09:14 pm (UTC)
Re: Thanks and Future Plans?
We wouldn't be going after the "simplified model" for damage/cures; we would be going for the exact/actual calculation in this case since we have the numbers for just about everything else.

Our goal is going to be figuring everything out except the following 4 things first...

1) Damage you deal to an enemy
2) Damage you take from an enemy
3) HP you cure using cure 1-4 (-ga)
4) Distance loss

Those 4 things are probably the most complicated at the moment. There are some other groups working on these but Ashi and I probably won't post anything on that ourselves until we figure the rest of the 'basics' out. We already figured out most everything, just shoring up the spells and stuff.

As far as helping, you would need a 3 character team to do any sort of legit testing. The new information is a little more difficult to scheme, but we could definitely use help figuring out the spell CE and VE values. This is very simple to do (outlined in part3 and part4).

Best thing anyone could do to help us out right now is to pick a spell or ability not on this current list and find it's "CE" value - most of them will be 1 anyways. This way I can get it on the list. There are 360 non-damage/cure spells in the game right now and I've only gotten about 1/6th of those listed.
Re: Thanks and Future Plans? - (Anonymous) - Nov. 14th, 2007 07:21 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Thanks and Future Plans? - (Anonymous) - Nov. 17th, 2007 03:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Nov. 13th, 2007 02:36 pm (UTC)
/Drk Abilities, and the hate they gain
How much hate does Souleater and Last Resort gain?
(Anonymous)
Nov. 13th, 2007 04:27 pm (UTC)
Please clarify a point regarding multitarget buffs.
I'm assuming there have been no actual tests on buffs that hit the whole party, but would it be safe to assume that Barspells cast by a WHM are the same VE rating as the single target Barspells cast by a RDM?

I ask because in my experiences tanking as NIN/WHM, I've never pulled hate with a Barelementra, and if the effect were spread out and the VE was multiplicative, it would make a single Barspell in a 6 person party (standing close enough together) the equivalent of a Provoke, which I can assure you isn't so...
iam_minami
Nov. 13th, 2007 05:39 pm (UTC)
Re: Please clarify a point regarding multitarget buffs.
I'm positive aoe buffs generate less enmity but generate enmity per person they hit. This was very apparent when a bard would try to mazurka tank in a 3 man party vs a 6 man party. You can see that the aoe sleepga generate less emnity than the single target versions.

I just woke up, I'll try to get some people for testing later.

p.s. awesome tests!
Re: Please clarify a point regarding multitarget buffs. - (Anonymous) - Nov. 13th, 2007 09:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Nov. 14th, 2007 08:36 am (UTC)
Bind?
(Anonymous)
Nov. 14th, 2007 08:41 am (UTC)
anyone wants to help on asura?
this is really fun to read, thank you!

i'd be happy to help, i have BLM73, with WHM & RDM subs, on Asura. if anyone needs one more person for their test group on Asura, pls say so :)

a couple questions.. why do you say the two testers must stand at the same distance from the monster? i thought you confirmed in the earlier tests that distance has no impact on enmity?

i also wanted to add to the list of things to do at some point. in addition to enmity from standard abilities/damage/etc, it would be nice to know the enmity generated by special actions:

- healing (by sitting down)

- passive aggro (be seen/heard/etc. by a mob that aggroes sight/sound/etc.)

- aggro that spreads from another mob through linking

- aggro that spreads from the pet or summon - if any

- aggro that spreads from another pt member - if any (a pt member forgot to cast sneak and died to a sound-aggro mob; the mob then proceeded to attack the rest of the pt, even though we were all sneaked, and didn't cure etc.; might have been a glitch though...)

(Anonymous)
Nov. 14th, 2007 03:06 pm (UTC)
Re: anyone wants to help on asura?
Passive aggro and linking shouldn't generate any hate, since you're not actually on the mob's enmity list. It wouldn't hurt to check, but it's very doubtful that they do.

--Doval
Re: anyone wants to help on asura? - kanican - Nov. 14th, 2007 04:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: anyone wants to help on asura? - kanican - Nov. 14th, 2007 04:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Nov. 18th, 2007 01:47 am (UTC)
...
...Thank you...
(Anonymous)
Nov. 22nd, 2007 12:18 am (UTC)
Warcry
Just a quick question, Warcry has been said to add an amount of enmity to the user equal to that of a Provoke, if it lands on all 5 other members of a full party, so basically enmity varies on how many people the ability effects.

So is the VE number of 300 on Warcry based on the user being solo?
kanican
Nov. 22nd, 2007 01:47 am (UTC)
Re: Warcry
From the notes written at the top of the table -

* Cumulative and Volatile Enmity values for ally target actions represent values for 1 target hit
- Multiply values given by number of players hit to calculate total CE and VE values
- Certain actions are single target only, but can be made multi-target by use of "Diffusion" JA

So yea the 300 VE number is for 1 player only. If you had a full 6 player party it would be 300x6=1800 = same as voke.
(Anonymous)
Nov. 23rd, 2007 05:35 am (UTC)
thank you
i just wanted to tank you for all the research you have been putting into this. if i can ever get the help i would like to test jump and high jump by equipping accuracy - gear and hand to hand to miss it. it is easily observable that the enmity effects go off when jumps miss however if it is a % VE then determining it accurately could take dozens of tests.
(Anonymous)
Nov. 25th, 2007 05:54 am (UTC)
Some suggestion
Can you group the abilities/spells by job? Would be much easier to look at them. :P
Good work! Keep it up!^^
(Anonymous)
Dec. 2nd, 2007 08:09 am (UTC)
Elemental Debuffs
I don't see the elemental debuffs listed. They operate in a very similar fashion to poison and poison II, is there any plan to test them? Thanks.
(Anonymous)
Dec. 8th, 2007 07:20 pm (UTC)
thank you
Thank you for all the testing you've done. I wish I could help, but all of my jobs are really too low or not suited. In any case, this is an awesome resource for the FFXI community.
(Anonymous)
Dec. 23rd, 2007 03:54 am (UTC)
Unreasonable
ur telling me Invisible builds more hate then Invincable?? lol ridiculus
kanican
Dec. 23rd, 2007 09:41 am (UTC)
Re: Unreasonable
This is probably a troll comment, but I'm going to respond in case someone comes back to read the comments awhile from now and thinks I messed something up.

Invisible is not even listed right now. There is no way you could possibly make a comparison between Invisible and PLD 2hr on this table right now.

On a side note, if you used PLD 2hr, then waited 2 minutes, then had someone else use Invisible on the hate list already, yes Invisible would pull hate.
Re: Unreasonable - ikarigaruda - Mar. 3rd, 2008 08:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Unreasonable - kanican - Mar. 3rd, 2008 11:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Unreasonable - ikarigaruda - Mar. 5th, 2008 02:53 am (UTC) - Expand
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( 79 comments — Leave a comment )