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Scholar Guide (Part IV)

EDIT: In this post, I talk about the idea that 1 Elemental Skill possibly equals either 1 MACC at all skill levels, or 0.9 MACC above 200 skill (similar to melee skills).  At the time of this post, there was no conclusive evidence to reject either, hence my post mentions either could be true.  In a post by Robonsto, weeks after this post was originally opened, he was able to show with reasonable statistical significance that 1 Elemental Skill DOES equal 1 MACC at all levels, UNLIKE melee skills.  I repeat, unlike melee skills, 1 Elemental Skill equals 1 MACC at all skill levels.

Overview


In the previous sections, I've gone over some basic macroing strategies, an introduction into SCH solo in Dark Arts, and a look at SCH in Light Arts focusing on the -50 enmity set.  In this post, I hope to go over specifically how Scholar fairs relative to BLM concerning magical resistance rates in elemental magic.  As you should know by now, Scholar is given strong, but not ideal skill ratings of B+ in essentially all categories of magic.  This post will tell you how to maximize your magical accuracy specifically for elemental magic in addition to how the lower base skill of SCH compares to the "ideal" elemental magic DD, BLM.

Before beginning, I feel like any job that relies on magic should read this post as it takes a look at properly maximizing your magical accuracy using new data which is not anecdotal, but statistically based.  Some of the concepts here were quite new to me as of a month ago, and I suspect a good portion of the community has not caught on to these new set of tests.  Special thanks to both the person originally conducting the test, who I will refer to as Lodeguy in this post, and the translator, Robonosto.  Much of this data collection and analysis is still ongoing, so please keep this in mind when reading.

Finally, near the end of this post, I will be discussing the state of Scholar in terms of balance relative to the Black Mage job.  By the end of this analysis on resistance rates, it should become clear that a Dark Arts SCH is not only more MP efficient, self-reliant, and versatile than BLM, but also nearly equal in terms of resistance rates on most resistant type mobs.  As a player that basically specializes in both these jobs, I will try to make my case as to why and how much SCH is imbalanced relative to BLM.

I know many of you have been looking forward to another SCH post, so I hope this doesn't disappoint.

 


Scholar Guide (Part I)
Scholar Guide (Part II)
Scholar Guilde (Part III)
Scholar Guide (Part V)

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How Resistance Rates Work

Before delving into Scholar in this post, It is important to first understand just what the new testing by Lodeguy is, why it is so much more reliable than previous axioms of resistance rates, and what his results are.  Many of you have heard things like the 320/120 rule or the "super INT" build.  It should be clear why strategies like this work in certain instances now.

The "high school" version of why the results of Lodeguy's tests are reliable is that he does everything in a "by the book" manner statistically.  He lays out confidence intervals (95% chosen), which essentially mean that there is a 95% chance that his range encompasses the true value.  It's all done in a very similar fashion that would be used in the real world for everything from drug trials to doing polls.  My statistics is not nearly as strong as the original poster or the translator, but most of the general concepts are based on just using a large number of trials, using chi squared comparsions, and in the case of INT, also using regression models.

If you're interested in the actual testing methodology or how they reached their conclusions, I highly recommend reading through Robonosto's posts (or Lodeguy's if you are fluent in Japanese).  For the purposes of this post, however, I really only intend to use the results of the testing.  Again, though, keep in mind that it is still ongoing.

This is a summary of what you need to know for this:

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Summary of Conclusions


1)  +1 MACC ("Magic Accuracy" the stat) is equivalent to +1 Skill


There is some debate as to whether 1 skill really equates to 0.9 magic accuracy over 200 base skill (as is the case for melee skills).  Statistically it is incredibly hard to tell the difference between 1.0 and 0.9 without a massive number of trials, so the current testing is unable to support or refute this idea.  For the purposes of this post, I will consider them equivalent unless future testing suggests otherwise.

EDIT: See Edit info, 1 MACC is 1 Skill (proven after this post was first made by Robonosto


2)  +1 MACC increases the chance to land the spell successfully by 0.5% if the chance to land successfully is below 50%.  If the chance to land successfully is above 50%, +1 MACC increases the chance to land the spell successfully by 1.0%.


This makes no reference to any "base magical accuracy" stat.  It only states that if you add +1 MACC the chance to land the spell unresisted will increase by 0.5% or 1.0% depending on the land rate prior to adding the +1 MACC.


3)  HQ Elemental Staves grant roughly a 20 to 30 MACC bonus.


It should be noted that this 20 to 30 number has long been assumed on JP Wiki.


4)  +1 INT is equivalent to +1 MACC when the difference between the caster's and target's INT is at or below +10.  +1 INT is equivalent to +0.5 MACC when the difference is above +10.  It is currently unknown if there is another "tier".


This is meant in the context of spells that are based on an INT to INT check, which is true for say Elemental Magic.  Other moves like Paralyze rely on a MND to MND check.  Even still more complex, the stats of the mob and player don't always have to be the same.  Certain Weapon Skills such as COR's Leaden Salute are based on an INT to AGI check.  It depends on the individual move in question, but the general concept is likely to be the same.

5)  The chance to successfully land a magic spell unresisted is dependent on the level difference between the caster and the target.


A similar penalty is imposed for melee accuracy.

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The 320/120 Build


Prior to this data, it was generally accepted that for elemental magic nukes, the 'rule' for resistances was that you wanted to balance Skill and INT instead of just straight stacking Skill in what was called the 320/120 build.  The results of these tests back this up quite well as every INT you add prior to reaching +10 INT over the target is the exact same thing as +1 Skill.  Considering INT is generally much easier to obtain than Skill, I think that this build is only re-enforced by this testing.

For those that don't really understand the meaning behind the 320/120 build, it is NOT a sort of "tier" where your resist rates suddenly drop or floor upon reaching it.  The 320/120 build really refers only to a specific set of HNM mobs, namely Wyrms and lesser sky gods - it does not encompass every single resistant HNM in the game, but it does encompass a good chunk of resistant mobs fought in endgame.


For the purposes of this post, I'll be referring back to this old 320/120 build.  This is because the testing done by Lodeguy does not tell you how much INT and Skill you need to reach a certain resist rate on a mob - it can only tell you the relative increases in accuracy per stat added.  This is extremely important, and things like the 320/120 axiom are still important in determining how much of what you need on a particular mob.


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The "Super INT" Build

This is a much lesser known build which basically states that you want to stack as much INT as possible and generally disregard Elemental Skill when nuking.  It is generally not that well accepted and really the only mob I've ever heard of this build working on in an ideal situation is Kirin. 


This build can again be reasoned out by the new testing.  Remember that prior to reaching +10 INT difference between the caster and target, every additional point to INT is the equivalent of 1 Skill.  For mobs with extremely high amounts of INT, the returns on stacking INT generally will not decrease.  For a mob like Kirin, which is known to have extremely high amounts of INT stat, the "super INT" build definitely works.  If you want to see just how high Kirin's INT is, you can try a Helix on Kirin and watch it get floored to 0.

For this post, I generally won't refer to this build, but it should be taken into consideration if you know you are fighting a mob of extremely high INT stat.  Kirin and Jormungand are good candidates.  Generally speaking, though, the 320/120 build will encompass far more situations and resistant endgame mobs because INT values generally don't go past 110 for most HNMs.

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Elemental Magic Resistance Set


Now that we know how various stats like MACC, INT, and Elemental Magic Skill affect resistance rates, we can go about building the ideal resist set. I'll start by giving you my current "ideal" elemental magic resist setup; note that it's not the highest it can be - some trade-offs aren't worth it to me.  I haven't obtained some of the newer equipment like Argute's Belt, but I have what is essentially an impossible item in Aureole.

MainElemental Staves
Potency +15%, Hidden MACC
SubBugard Strap +1INT +1
RangedAureole
MACC +8
HeadArgute Morterboard
Skill +7
BodyScholar's Gown +1
INT +3, Skill +15
HandsGenie GagesSkill +8
LegsMahatma SlopsINT +8
FeetGoliard Clogs
INT +4, MACC +2
BackMerciful Cape
Skill +5
WaistArgute Belt
INT +5, MACC +2
NeckElemental Torque
Skill +7
Ear 1Novio EarringMAB +7
Ear 2Moldavite EarringMAB +5
Ring 1Tamas RingINT +5
Ring 2Snow RingINT +5

Given Elemental Magic Merits, INT Merits, and a Tarutaru SCH/RDM, this comes to...

      -  314 Elemental Magic Skill
      -  12 additional Magic Accuracy
      -  113 INT


Given that MACC is equivalent to Elemental Magic Skill for nukes, this comes to 326 "Skill" and 113 INT.  Adding in a simple Cream Puff (+7 INT) will bring this to 326/120, just barely covering 320/120 rule.  In addition, Stormsurge Hailstorm merits can increase the INT stat by an additional 7 INT.  While this build above is at 326 "Skill", a more reasonable build probably wil not include an Aureole, so replacing it with the more standard Phantom Tathlum, you are more likely to get 318/122 with food without use of the weapon slot.  There are numerous ways to add to this set since it is not actually an "ideal" listing.  For instance, using an Omega Ring will hit the 320/120 rule without using an Aureole.  Other changes exist as well.

Scholar is able to satisfy the 320/120 rule, although it is considerably more difficult than for a Black Mage.  Remember that this rule is not all-encompassing - but it will satisfy general resist for the vast majority of HNMs worth nuking on.  If you are able to attain this 320/120 number, hopefully surpass it, your SCH will fair extremely well on most HNMs without the use of buffs like Klimaform.


I want to stress again that you do NOT want to just hit this 320/120 number then stop!  You ideally are going to want more in the range of 330/130.  As a comparison, my BLM uses a 334/131 set with food.  You pretty much will not see any resist on HNMs with the exception of ToAU NMs with a 334/131.


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Cheap Scholar Elemental Resist Set


As my gear is probably not easy to mimic, I'll try to discuss the easy the obtain options you can use as a Scholar to build your Elemental Resist Set.  If you have a Black Mage geared for endgame, this exercise should be very easy for you.  I would consider this set below a sort of "HQ AH gear" set - it should be the absolute minimum in terms of what you need to make this set work and includes a couple of common HQ AH items and no rare/ex.

MainElemental Staves
Potency +15%, Hidden MACC
SubBugard Strap +1INT +1
AmmoPhantom Tathlum
INT +2
HeadElite Beret +1
Skill +5
BodyScholar's Gown
INT +1, Skill +15
HandsGenie GagesSkill +8
LegsMahatma SlopsINT +8
FeetMountain Gaiters
INT +2
BackPrism Cape
INT +4
WaistPenitent's Rope
INT +5
NeckElemental Torque
Skill +7
Ear 1Morion Earring
INT +1
Ear 2Elemental Earring
Skill +3
Ring 1Snow Ring
INT +5
Ring 2Snow RingINT +5

Given Elemental Magic Merits, no INT Merits, and a Tarutaru SCH/RDM, this comes to...

      -  310 Elemental Magic Skill
      -  111 INT


With Cream Puffs this comes to a 310/118 set.  This is still significantly weaker than the first set (mine) that I outlined and is about 17% less 'accurate'.  It should be noted that a Black Mage using similar AH gear fairs significantly better, and is even able to reach 320/120 for general HNM use.  This stresses how much more reliant SCH is on rare pieces of gear when it comes to the Elemental Magic Resistant set.

Without getting into too many specifics, here is a list of good RARE/EX items to take a look at if you happen to have access to them that will improve the set above, and hopefully work you closer to the 320/120 mark.  They range from fairly easy to get to extremely rare.

      -  Argute Morterboard
      -  Scholar's Gown +1
      -  Numerist Pumps
      -  Goliard Clogs
      -  Balrahn's Ring
      -  Omega's Ring
      -  Merciful Cape
      -  Argute's Belt
      -  Aureole


This list is rather small and should again illustrate the lack of gear choices SCH has.  In the future, more gear will likely be added that can help, but for now this is all I can really see being significantly useful in building upon the base set of AH gear outside of a few +1 INT differences.

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Black Mage VS Scholar


As mentioned many times in some of my previous posts on the subject, Scholar is a much more MP efficient nuker than BLM due to the use of Parsimony charges as well as the innate Dark Arts bonus.  Although BLM can deal more damage when given only a short period of time, over time, a SCH has the potential to deal out more much damage in the long run given equal resist rates.

The fact that BLM can nuke harder in short spurts is really not a benefit in most HNM fights since you're not looking for strong spurts of magical damage typically (such spurts are generally for melee damage, while magical damage is used for "control" fights).  Really the only thing BLM has as an advantage over SCH when it comes to long duration HNM fights is their higher base magic accuracy - a base difference of +20 Skill and +2 INT.  Long story short:

If a Scholar can attain the same magical accuracy on elemental damage as Black Mage, it will be superior to Black Mage as a magical DD in every meaningful way - MP efficiency, enmity control, and overall damage output.


If you are a Scholar, your goal is really to do this.  Endgame is about efficiency - the efficient get spots in the alliance, the inefficient generally would/should not.  The question is, is this possible now?  In the future?

 


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Magic Accuracy Cutoffs


The answer to the question of will Scholar ever be able to match the resistance rate of a Black Mage, and essentially become superior to Black Mage at magical DD, can really be answered by knowing where the resist rate cuts off for a particular HNMRemember that accuracy in this game is capped at 95%.  Once you reach this cap, adding more accuracy or stats affecting accuracy will do nothing.

There are HNMs such as Dark Ixion or Hydra which are just considered inefficient to use magical DD on - I exclude these situations as both Scholar and Black Mage would be equally inefficient to nuke on them.  Black Mage can generally reach the 95% accuracy cap on worthwhile nuking targets already given it's strong base skill and very generous equipment choices.  Scholar is getting closer and closer with each patch and equipment upgrade.

The issue here is that given enough eventual gear updates, Scholar must inevitably reach the same resist rates as a Black Mage (95% cap), thus overtaking it as the superior endgame magical DD job.  This is because SCH and BLM are not directly competing over resist rates - they are both just trying to reach a certain number independently; once this value is reached, resistance is a non-issue, and the fact that SCH is inherently more efficient will make it superior.


This is the huge issue right now for Black Mage in my opinion.  If you exclude resistances, Scholar is inherently a stronger nuking job for HNM fights due to its incredible MP efficiency.  Black Mage has already generally reached the point of resistances not mattering given correct gear - the addition of "better" resistance gear doesn't change anything for it as a job since it has already reached the cap.  The introduction of better "resistance gear" can only benefit Scholar, not Black Mage at this point.  Considering how close Scholar is already, this is inevitable.


If we look at the current numbers I mentioned earlier, my ideal Scholar elemental resistance gear is a 326/120 set.  My current Black Mage resistance set, which generates essentially a capped magical accuracy of 95% on essentially all endgame worthwhile nuking targets is a 334/131.  This is only an 8 skill, 11 INT difference.  This doesn't even include specific Scholar buffs such as Klimaform, the fact Scholar can self-buff weather, Stormsurge Hailstorm, or Focalization.

At this point, Black Mage is in desperate need of an update to its nuking arsenal.  The issue is not equipment or the way Black Mage is currently used - it has everything to do with the fact that Scholar is inherently more efficient.  No gear change can fix this.  Something about the Black Mage job and it's nuking abilities or spells has to be changed to inherently make it competitive to Scholar in magical DD.  Though Black Mage still has significant use in events (Sleepga crowd control, Stun, AoE magical damage), it does seem slightly ridiculous that it would not be the strongest magical DD in FFXI.


If you are a Scholar, you probably like hearing this.  Basically, if you gear yourself properly, you will be the strongest and most efficient magical DD job in the game.  This will essentially ensure you a spot in anything you use nukes on.  All this while maintaining excellent versatility in the ability to switch to Light Arts as well as using Scholar unique AoE enfeebles.


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Conclusions


This post contains links and summaries of some amazingly well conducted magic accuracy tests.  I highly suggest that anyone interested in maxing out their mage jobs to read at least the summaries and to build their magic sets around it.  While the focus of this post is elemental magic, you can easily apply the information to other sets such as Enfeebling and Dark Magic.

In this post, I made the case that Scholar is the ideal magical DD in FFXI endgame given ideal gear for both Black Mage and Scholar jobs due to a much higher inherent MP efficiency.  The only thing that can potentially hold Scholar back is the elemental magic resistance rate - an issue which is becoming increasingly less noticeable as equipment and job updates increase.  Given this, a Scholar with the proper resistance and nuking sets truly is the strongest magical DD in the game - a situation which should be alarming in terms of game balance considering it's a hybrid job, but very cool if you are a Scholar.

While some of the equipment needed to compete with the Black Mage job on resistant NMs is currently hard to obtain - ranging from difficult (e.g. Argute's Belt) to essentially impossible (e.g. Aureole), remember that any equipment update can only benefit Scholar and not Black Mage since it is already capped in terms of resistances.  I encourage any Scholar serious about the job to take a careful look at the best options for elemental resistance sets and strive to attain them.  A Scholar's lack of equipment would be the only thing holding it back from being the strongest magical DD.  While resistance gear is much easier to attain for BLM, given ideal gear, a SCH is better.  At this point, Scholar is truly a compete job as it has received its AF2, AF1+1, and both Merit categories.  While obviously meant to be a sort of hybrid job, to me it is clearly no longer the case when given ideal gear and builds. 

While I have been extremely hard on the current state of the Black Mage job, I will point out that I do still use Black Mage over Scholar for most mid-level to difficult soloing - this post only really shows that it is inferior to Scholar in group play and HNMs.  Why?  The issue deals with "fatigue" and the Scholar charge recast - an important limitation that prevents the job from being completely outright broken.



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十大ニュース

Instead of a typical set of pics, I decided to post my own personal 十大ニュース, which basically an activity started by ElmerThePointy where you list out the top 10 things or events for you in the past calender year in FFXI.


(10)  Beating Odin

(9)  Discovering Marduk's Shalwar had a hidden enmity stat, then SE actually fixing it

(8)  Beating Einherjar Tier 3 KB

(7)  Successfully soloing Apollyon NW 10 times in a row (still current)

(6)  6-manning Sarameya

(5)  7-manning Guivre Sandworm version

(4)  Soloing Bhaflau Remnants

(3)  Completing all major formulas for Enmity

(2)  Leveling Scholar to 75

(1)  Killing Absolute Virtue YEA (Awsomeland!!!)


Drama Thread of the Day


Really?  Seriously?


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Comments

( 94 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 2
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(Anonymous)
Dec. 30th, 2008 11:09 am (UTC)
Nice post, as always.
As always it's very interesting, and even for a long awaited post, it doesn't let us down.

It's also nice to see how someone who haven't access to some of the best gear can still gear his sch to make him efficient (i guess it's your answer to all the person who say you're able to do such nice things with blm or sch - like solo - just because of your gear)

Anyway, i noticed that in your "Cheap Scholar Elemental Resist Set" you choose to put that on someone who have "Elemental Magic Merits, no INT Merits, and a Tarutaru SCH/RDM". Elemental magic merits, no INT merits and sch/rdm seem pretty basic things and can be done/changed by anyone.
But as someone who have blm and sch 75, and access to most of the gear (save Aureole) but who is an Elvaan, i can't seem to go over 314/108 (+11 Macc) with food and Hailstorm.
Even if i'm sure SE will add more gear, i doubt they'll add enough to fill such a gap. Because when you look at it, most of the gear for most slots is already pretty nice in a magical accuracy point of view (not even going to talk about a mab point of view... )
At least now we have Focalization, but it's really not very efficient to use 2 charges to not get resisted every time you nuke.

Thanks again for the post !
kanican
Dec. 30th, 2008 03:12 pm (UTC)
Re: Nice post, as always.
ELV does fall short at the moment it seems, but really gear gets upgraded all the time. Small things add up.

For instance, there is usually some "uber" set that is introduced each expansion upon completion of an expansion (Salvage gear, mission ending rings, Limbus gear, etc.). Scholar hasn't really be around for any of these with the exception of the ZNM event, which gives quite weak gear outside of PW generally. I'd wait and see what WotG brings.

Also, if you include best gear for ELV possible sans Aureole, you should definitely be a little closer I think. What are you using for that 314/108? I think you can get more than 314 if you use things like Balrahn's Ring and Omega's Ring. If you have to gimp one side of the 320/120 gimp your INT because you will still fair well on low-INT HNMs if your INT is gimped.
Re: Nice post, as always. - (Anonymous) - Dec. 30th, 2008 04:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Nice post, as always. - kanican - Dec. 30th, 2008 04:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Nice post, as always. - (Anonymous) - Dec. 30th, 2008 04:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Nice post, as always. - kanican - Dec. 30th, 2008 05:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
zven06
Dec. 30th, 2008 11:25 am (UTC)
Awsomeland*

=p

Nice post!
kanican
Dec. 30th, 2008 03:03 pm (UTC)
Fixed lol
tykkaru_ffxi
Dec. 30th, 2008 12:03 pm (UTC)
Really nice to read this post Kaeko, thanks for doing this investigation.

I have a question, I'm main BRD, and thus my magic skill merits is already taken up by 8/8 Wind and Singing, and my attributes are already 5/5 on CHR, although I could remerit that...

Would you recommend to pursue attaining a nuking setup through SCH without said merits and with a mishmash of attainable gear (for me)?

I've calculated that through equipment, a Tarutaru SCH/RDM without Elemental Magic Merit nor INT merits, would have access to grant Skill 301 and INT 109. This is without food as well, this is far away from your 320/120 build that you mentioned...
kanican
Dec. 30th, 2008 03:06 pm (UTC)
If you're truly serious about it, you pretty much have to get the +16 from merits on elemental. Without it you're just not even close.

I have some data regarding BRD Singing vs. Wind skill as well I might post sometime as well I found from a JP guide. Wind skill isn't nearly as effective as Singing skill I think in terms of accuracy.
(no subject) - tykkaru_ffxi - Dec. 30th, 2008 04:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kanican - Dec. 31st, 2008 12:49 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tykkaru_ffxi - Dec. 31st, 2008 07:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kanican - Dec. 31st, 2008 07:34 am (UTC) - Expand
acturusofasura
Dec. 30th, 2008 12:09 pm (UTC)
The only time I regret leveling an Elvaan is when I read Kaeko's nuking posts. =(
acturusofasura
Dec. 30th, 2008 02:03 pm (UTC)
Is there any particular reason why you left off a Bugard Strap +1 from your AH-build?
kanican
Dec. 30th, 2008 03:13 pm (UTC)
Typo and fixed, thanks.
valyana
Dec. 30th, 2008 03:43 pm (UTC)
It seems like you'd get to mob INT +10 well before 120 INT for most HNM. A level 92 WAR/WAR mob with racial C int would have 76 INT, so I'd guess that ~90 INT would be enough for Tiamat. Has anyone actually calculated HNM INT values?
kanican
Dec. 30th, 2008 04:16 pm (UTC)
It's fairly hard to tell. Easiest way I've found is to use a Helix and see if it gets floored to 0 at various INT values. I know Jorm and Kirin have particularly high INT values. Maybe Studio Gibli would have values.

Also, there is some evidence that there is another dINT cutoff that brings it to 1 INT = 0.25 MACC. I have no clue where this is. I think it's fairly good to still stack INT at 0.5 MACC cutoff, but once you hit this 0.25 one if it exists, I can see it being pretty bad.

Really you just have to balance each gear choice. Generally INT is much easier to get - often you can get near double the amount of INT in 1 slot compared to skill/macc. A good example of this is druid's slops vs. Mahatma slops. I think the 'balance' of INT and skill comes most into play with the individual gear selections.

You're right though, if I had to choose, I would overstack Skill/MACC instead of INT.

Tiamat is lvl95 I think btw.
(Anonymous)
Dec. 30th, 2008 05:54 pm (UTC)
-All talk of SCH resistance is geared towards meritted Tarus with awesome gear, while as Kaeko points out, an AH BLM of any race can hit the same level, and an excellent BLM can push beyond it. Point being, BLM still certainly has job security, and shouldn't expect to be replaced by SCHs (or told by their LS leader to level SCH instead) anytime soon, especially non-Taru.

-I stress your point that BLM has a versatility to it (chargeless Sleepga2, -ga3, AM2, Stun, even lolD2 and related movement spells). SCH can replicate Sleepga via Manifestation, and some spells can be gained by niche-at-best SCH/BLM and SCH/DRK, and one can try to properly time an Ebullience Tier 4 when the BLMs do a timed AM2 (timing a la Freeze SC-MB circa 2004). But -ga3 is entirely unreplicatable, and it still has application in 2008. Certainly, SCH has its own versatility, but certain abilities are expected of nukers at events, and SCH can't deliver on all of these.

-Being able to finally quantify the macc of elemental staves (using Robonosto's informed assumptions of +20 macc for NQ and +30 for HQ), we can finally start to make informed decisions about alternative weapons. A number of Mythic weapons, as well as the Antares club, have +10 macc. So equipping a Mythic/Antares combo would give WHM/RDM/BRD the same macc of a NQ staff while allowing them to melee, Mythic WS, other stats on weapons, etc. Alkalurops, as many guessed, is in fact a great enfeebling weapon (macc between NQ and HQ elemental staff, and extra potency). Liberator has as much macc as a NQ staff, as well as augmenting Absorb spells, which has interesting potential. Weapons like Dorje can also be adequately assessed via theorycrafting like "Can I make up the -30 macc in gear, and will I still come out ahead despite no staff damage bonus and the INT gear I'm sacrificing?"

-Pav
kanican
Dec. 30th, 2008 06:19 pm (UTC)
My point about resists is the only factor that can hold a SCH back is the gear choices. If you happen to be like me and have access to essentially anything in game, you WILL reach a point where resists don't matter for either job. In this situation, I argue that SCH is superior.

Now the fact most people cannot currently reach this right now is well noted. However, future gear updates will eventually build up. As I point out in the post, these resist gear updates do NOT help BLM resists as it's been capped - but they WILL help SCH, eventually hitting that so called "magic number". For most SCHs, I agree they won't fair as well as a typical BLM at this time. In the future I can't see them being the case w/o a change though.

As far as the BLM uniques like Sleepgas, AoE ga3s, and Stun, I point out in the post that they are still uniques and easier to hoard. It's generally going to be better to hoard 6 BLMs and not 6 SCHs if you have that option. As an individual, single target nuker though, I think my post is valid.

Most big targets in game do not involve AoE ga3s. The ones that do you obvious want to hoard BLM. Strong single target nukes like AM2 for MB I don't really agree with you though. MB has actually gotten much less efficient due to the damage nerf on NMs. Also, sadly it's not really that efficient to mix melee and mage DD to pull off SCs on most things that don't specifically require it. It's best to just go all magic DD if that's the best option, or all melee DD.

Maybe we come from different LSs so we don't get each other, but when I'm told to magic DD, it does not involve MB outside of KA [S]. I can simply spam parsimony T4s with a better enmity down set than BLM and dish out far more damage over time. MBing would 1) require melee, 2) require magic damage to hold off until SC happens, 3) feed TP which isn't always warrented, 4) cause higher damage spikes = higher enmity spikes = less hate efficient, 5) lower your overall damage if you stack DD attacks on MB due to damage nerf to combat RMT 3 years ago.
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Dec. 30th, 2008 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
nyiri
Dec. 30th, 2008 06:55 pm (UTC)
I might also recommend elemental grips for Scholars looking to push their accuracy closer to the 95% nirvana. A full set would be absurd, of course, but between Stormsurge Hailstorm, the stats on Aquilo's Staff, the relative power of the Blizzard line of spells, and the fact that a large number of mobs in the game are weak to ice, it might be worth carrying an Ice Grip. At the cost of an inventory slot, you could trade the INT+1 that you'd normally be getting from a Bugard Strap +1 for MACC+2, and it's something you could just walk to the AH and pick up. They're not even terribly expensive.

On the flip side, though, it *is* only 1-1.5 MACC difference, and inventory space is precious. I suppose it's a matter of how desperate you are for MACC.
(Anonymous)
Dec. 30th, 2008 08:57 pm (UTC)
Additional Info
Great Stuff as always Kaeko, I really appreciate all your work and I'm excited at all the recent activity on your LJ.

With that said I wanted to bring a post hidden in Alla to your attention if you didn't already know about it. Found here:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=20;mid=1228787048189855786;num=16;page=1

This is a page about using en-spells to test MACC, and determine resist rates for individual mobs since enspells do not take int/mind checks into the equation. I had to read it, and all his subsequent posts several times before I understood what it was going on, but it brings up some very interesting possibilities. With enough enspell testing, resist rates for every mob could conceivably be found, allowing for gear to be optimized for a specific fight.

Oh, and his tests also point to .9 MACC/skill after 200

Just wanted to bring this up since you have a strong history of testing things.
kanican
Dec. 30th, 2008 09:29 pm (UTC)
Re: Additional Info
Yea I pointed this one out in the BG thread "Formal magic accuracy testing".

He actually doesn't 'show' the 0.9 MACC/Skill because his number of trials is too small to distiguish between 0.9 and 1.0. Lodeguy's data shows that MACC had a stronger effect than skill as well, but again, the difference was too small to conclusively say either way.

The enspell testing is nice because you can you ramp up the number of trials very quickly. The concept is nice, but in this particular set of tests, he stops around 400. That's not even close to what's necessary in these sort of tests - by contrast the set of data I refer to uses 10000+ in some cases.
rocl_ffxi
Dec. 30th, 2008 10:01 pm (UTC)
Due to the limitations on Magic Merits, I have but 4 in Elemental (the other 4 being in Blue Magic, and 8 in Enfeebling as I don't think my LS will ever let me take them out, this puts me at a particular disadvantage in terms of achieving 320/120 on Scholar. Any tips or swaps you can suggest for a little hume SCH? I would figure it out myself, but I'm not 75 quite yet and thinking in so many skills ahead drives me crazy
kanican
Dec. 31st, 2008 12:38 am (UTC)
With what is currently available, I think you'd practically need an Aureole without going 8/8 elemental or or waiting on more gear to potentially increase that. Right now the only really easy way to hit this is being a full merit Tarutaru.

I actually still use the light arts side of SCH 90% of the time on events because BLM is a much more common job for us. Considering events are more melee friendly than mage friendly nowadays in terms of DD, it puts SCH in light arts more often than dark arts. This post really only matters for I think Fafhogg, Tiamat, Sky Gods, Ouryu, maybe Jorm, and some misc. NMs.
(no subject) - rocl_ffxi - Dec. 31st, 2008 02:06 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kanican - Dec. 31st, 2008 02:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rocl_ffxi - Dec. 31st, 2008 07:20 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kanican - Dec. 31st, 2008 07:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rocl_ffxi - Jan. 1st, 2009 12:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kanican - Jan. 1st, 2009 12:22 am (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Dec. 31st, 2008 06:52 am (UTC)
Great Info!
Hey Kaeko, thanks for the amazing info on magic accuracy since I was unaware of these recent tests. So for resistant mobs, this means using an Omega Ring is superior to a Snow Ring since Omega Ring lands you +3 Int as well as +3 MAcc? However, if we're looking for max damage, the Snow Ring is probably our best bet as a scholar I imagine, while black mages are able to use sorcerer's ring. Hmm, what a pain to have to carry Omega Ring for that.
(Anonymous)
Dec. 31st, 2008 04:38 pm (UTC)
334/131
Hey Kaeko,

Great post as always! Being a main BLM and reading this post, I've noticed that you mentioned hitting 334/131. I was just wondering what gear you used to reach this. Thanks and keep up the good work!

tactikz.wordpress.com
kanican
Dec. 31st, 2008 05:25 pm (UTC)
Re: 334/131
bugard strap +1
aureole
sorcerer's petasos +1
prudence torque
novio earring
moldavite earring
morrigan's robe
wizard's gloves +1
tamas ring
snow ring
merciful cape
witch sash
mahatma slops
goliard clogs

INT merits are incomplete. It should really be slightly higher due to merits and small upgrades like morrigan's slops.
Re: 334/131 - (Anonymous) - Dec. 31st, 2008 06:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Re: 334/131 - kanican - Jan. 3rd, 2009 01:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
naobi_ffxi
Jan. 1st, 2009 02:55 am (UTC)
Sch
Hiya Kaeko ^.^ Great job on this post. A lot of schs' hopes are high, since we all "hoped" that this last update brought enough gear choices to finally get us into the unresisted nuking safe zone. You've shown us that for the most part it has, and will only get better from here, (so long as SE doesn't find the bat...). Thankfully I am also a taru, so I have a tad bit less to worry about when reaching for the safe zone than others.

One thing that I noticed you mentioned, is that for the majority of solo content, you still prefer blm. I was quite surprised by that statement and was curious as to why. Like you, blm was my first job, and solo content has been my love in ffxi. Upon completion of sch, it became my more used solo job. I feel as though i have a much thicker safety net, as well as more tools to aid me in making my solos successful. Having Alacrity > Bind for the behemoths in apollyon are such an example. Is your preference simply due to blm being your first and perhaps more... "respected" job that you don't want to turn your back on? Or is it because you feel that you can solo better on blm vice sch?

Thanks again for taking the time to test things I haven't enough patience for ^.^

--===Naobi===--
kanican
Jan. 1st, 2009 04:26 am (UTC)
Re: Sch
You run out of charges too quickly when trying to solo for speed like in Apollyon. Also Manafont is far superior to TR when doing this type of solo. I would solo on SCH if I felt it was optimal but it's really not unfortunately. I can beat the zone on either but it's faster and more consistent on BLM due to better kill speed.

MP efficiency says that in the long run, SCH will output more damage; however, when soloing, you have to remember that there is an inherent extra MP cost so to speak that comes with holding or having a mob aggroed (sleeps, upkeep buffs, etc.).

You're doing a good 30% more damage per T4/B4 on BLM and it amounts to fewer nukes to kill which makes it safer and more methodical. Though you have longer resting times, there are so many refresh chests that it really narrows this MP efficiency gap. Also the fact you get 5 manafonts really helps since 1 2hr is a free kill MP wise.
Re: Sch - naobi_ffxi - Jan. 1st, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Sch - kanican - Jan. 1st, 2009 10:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Jan. 1st, 2009 07:53 pm (UTC)
Nice post :D
Hi
I'm a SCH71 and I'm reading your posts which are very nice tutorials, but I don't have all time to get to do endgame nor I don't have still enough money to buy +1 armor because of my work... Obviously sometimes I have to do some sacrifice to get nice armor but I can't just have all armor you suggest. My point is that you give me nice ideas on how I can improve SCH gameplay and I hope someday I can buy or get at least 2 or 3 items of your cheap setup.
kanican
Jan. 1st, 2009 10:42 pm (UTC)
Re: Nice post :D
If you don't do a lot of HNM type stuff, I can't think of too many places you'll need the elemental resist type set, certainly not to the degree I point out with the 320/120. Right now it's just incredibly difficult to hit this mark on SCH, so I wouldn't go crazy trying to reach it if it's not easily available to you.

Really the Aureole is what puts my build over the edge and it's obviously not something that's accessible to most players. This post is therefore probably more theoredical or future-outlook than current for most people.

As far as more normal play which is what you seem to want to focus on, focus on the light arts enmity equipment first. Make sure you get at or near -50 enmity on cures because if you can't spam cure 4 or AoE buffs freely, you really gimp yourself in light arts completely. I'd probably focus on some nuking/enfeebling gear after that. Shouldn't be too costly imo.
izildur
Jan. 2nd, 2009 02:05 pm (UTC)
Brilliant read, even for me as a career Rdm - clears up very old theorys/ideas on int/mnd builds vs skill/int 320/120 rule and MACC

Shows players need be adabtable gear wise depending on the specific mob they are fighting (at endgame)to be more efficient and effective at their role

i did however have a little cry - as ive just got my Blm to 64, and am wishing i started Sch now lol


(Anonymous)
Jan. 3rd, 2009 02:03 pm (UTC)
Merits
Hi and thank you for great guide.

I'm wondering how to spend merits, so far i did lv5 surge and now pondering between enlightment lv5 or should i put some to focalization too...? How did ya'll upgrade?

- Meleh
kanican
Jan. 3rd, 2009 02:14 pm (UTC)
Re: Merits
I actually don't play all that much anymore so I haven't even finished T1 merits yet. I have 5/5 MV, 4/5 Helix, 1 Stormsurge, 1 Enlightenment, and 1 Equanimity (to test it) so far. Even my BLM isn't fully merited.

For T1 merits, everyone seems to agree that helix is a good one, but people debate MV or Sublimation. I went MV because it increases helix damage by about 1.6 times every 10 minutes - you can practically 1 shot a weaker mob with it. Sublimation merits I felt were rather weak - they do increase your overall refresh efficiency by about 2-3 MP a minute if you have AF2 body and use sublimation perfectly. That's extremely hard to do though, and is still barely noticeable. On the other hand, MV would generate about +500-600 damage every 10 minutes - not amazing, but significant, especially for soloers.

For T2, I'm still debating and have a couple of potential options. I think the MACC ones like Focalization everyone talks about are pretty useless though. It's ~25MACC at 5/5, which still won't even put you at a well geared RDM's enfeeble land rate. It's not useful for nukes b/c of charge cost.

Re: Merits - (Anonymous) - Jan. 4th, 2009 04:25 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Merits - kanican - Jan. 4th, 2009 07:05 am (UTC) - Expand
labyrinth_ghoul
Jan. 3rd, 2009 08:48 pm (UTC)
Gear Build for Scholar
So for people who have Scholar as a secondary job but don't want to hinder their primary, I have figured out a way to do this. Please check my math on this as it could be off and I am just not seeing it.

Hume - 75 SCH/RDM
Base Int: 72
Base Elemental Skill: 256 (+16 for Merits = 272)

Gear:
Head - Scholar Mortarboard +1 = +5 Int
Ear - Elemental Earring = +3 Skill
Ear - Phantom Earring +1 (or Omniscent Earring) = +2 Int
Neck - Prudence Torque = +5 Int
Waist - Argute Belt = +5 Int, +2 MACC
sub - Elemental Straps = +2 MACC
ammo - Phantom Tathlum = +2 Int
Body - Scholar's Gown +1 = +3 Int, +15 skill
Hands - Genie Gages = +8 skill
Legs - Mahatma slops = +8 Int
Feet - Goliard Clogs = +4 Int, +2 MACC
Back - Merciful Cape = +5 skill
Ring - Omega Ring = +3 Int, +3 MACC
Ring - Snow Ring = +5 Int
Main - Elemental Staves = +20 MACC


Totals from Gear: Int +42, Skill +31, MACC +29

Total Stats:
272 Skill + 31 from Gear + 29 MACC = 332 Skill
72 Base Int + 42 from Gear +7 from Cream Puff = 121 Int

Note: This is built to find a way to not lose any items like Rajas for people who have Melee as a main. It doesn't get to the safe range, but for someone who pulls it out say once every two weeks for LS events, it seems adequate.
kanican
Jan. 3rd, 2009 11:57 pm (UTC)
Re: Gear Build for Scholar
You don't include the elemental staves when doing this calculation, so you only get 312/121 in this. This build would probably still work with Klimaform weather up though.
Re: Gear Build for Scholar - (Anonymous) - Jan. 5th, 2009 10:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Gear Build for Scholar - kanican - Jan. 5th, 2009 10:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Jan. 5th, 2009 02:00 pm (UTC)
Save BLM?
What would be the best way to make BLM the best magical DD again? Would gear with more Magic Attack help or would the spells be capped at some point anyways?
(Anonymous)
Jan. 5th, 2009 02:05 pm (UTC)
Re: Save BLM?
or a convert type ability.
Re: Save BLM? - kanican - Jan. 5th, 2009 10:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
slycer
Jan. 7th, 2009 03:39 pm (UTC)
Klimaform + Obi = ...
Thanks for the great posts about scholar. I'm fairly close to your elemental resist setup (minus Aureole, and hume INT ftl) but I've had one question for a while which I haven't been able to find the answer to. I was wondering if you had tested, or you knew anyone who had tested, whether the magic accuracy bonuses from pairing elemental obis with weather stack with that from Klimaform and weather. Since the effect of obis is simply to activate day/weather bonuses for spellcasting, if the effect of Klimaform was the same (to activate weather m.acc bonus for spellcasting), there would be a chance that they might not stack.

I find Alacrity/Klimaform to be an incredibly powerful spell combination. With relic boots and relic head, using Stratagems exclusively for Alacrity, you can approach near-full time Klimaform assuming you're staying completely within Dark Arts. This opens up the door to tons of other gear options favoring less elemental skill/m.acc for more INT. However, it'd be nearly a moot point if the accuracy bonus did not stack with the bonus from pairing elemental obi with weather. If you haven't tested this or are unaware of tests, I'll do a bunch this week and see what I come up with (if they do stack, I can't imagine the pair of Klimaform and Obi + weather giving any less than +20-25 m.acc, which is really insanely good and allows for gear swaps in at least 3 slots for potentially 15 or more extra INT).
slycer
Jan. 7th, 2009 08:13 pm (UTC)
Re: Klimaform + Obi = ...
I just realized my own faulty logic wherein using Alacrity for Klimaform and using Stratagems exclusively for Alacrity totally robs you of the ridiculous power of Parsimony. With relic head and AF feet you can still get Klimaform recast down to something like 2:25 though, without haste. I guess the ideal would be to have two separate gear sets- one for nuking with Klimaform/weather (which would still be over 40% of the time in this case), and one for without. *shudders at the thought of carrying yet another gear set*

Regardless I'm still interested in the obi/klimaform thing. I'm fairly sure that the accuracies stack, but I've never read any testing to prove that's either right or wrong.
Re: Klimaform + Obi = ... - kanican - Jan. 7th, 2009 10:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
kainsin
Jan. 8th, 2009 01:38 pm (UTC)
Cool info, dude. Always a fun read.
(Anonymous)
Jan. 9th, 2009 05:29 pm (UTC)
Speaking as an Elvaan SCH, by my calculations it not quite possible to hit a 320/120 build even with 5/5 INT, 8/8 Elemental, and 5/5 Stormsurge merits. This is without an Aureole, and without relying on nuking ice magic w/the Aquilo's staff bonus 10/5.

I'm pretty sure the ideal resist build for an Elvaan is:

Main: HQ Staff
Sub: Bugard Leather Strap +1 (1 INT)
Ammo: Phantom Tathlum (2 INT)
Head: Argute Mortarboard (7 skill)
Neck: Elemental Torque (7 skill)
Ear1: Morion Earring +1 (2 INT)
Ear2: Morion Earring +1 (2 INT)
Body: Scholar's Gown +1 (3 INT, 15 skill)
Hands: Genie Gages (8 skill)
Ring1: Tamas Ring (5 INT)
Ring2: Omega Ring (3 INT, 3 M.Acc)
Back: Merciful Cape (5 skill)
Waist: Argute Belt (5 INT, 2 M.Acc)
Legs: Mahatma Slops (8 INT)
Feet: Goliard Clogs (4 INT, 2 M.Acc)

A naked Elvaan SCH with full mage merits has 272 Elemental Skill and 69 base INT (ouch). This build gives you +42 skill and +7 M.Acc for 272+42+7=321 effective skill and +35 INT for 69+35=104.

Add a Cream Puff and 5/5 Stormsurge Hailstorm into the mix for +14 INT and the best we can do is 321/118.

If we substitute an elemental earring for one of our morion +1's, we can get to 324/116. We can then trade out our Merciful Cape for a Gleeman's Cape, taking us to 319/121. Again, close but no cigar, though this build may be better.

Obviously the key 320/120 is trivial to hit when nuking ice, popping Focalization, or with INT Etudes from a BRD, but these just aren't always possible. Another very important variable is if you have a COR in the party to see if you can't get Warlock's Roll. Klimaform is trickier to take full advantage of as unless stacking it with Hailstorm, you're sacrificing 7 INT for the additional M.Acc (obviously it's just unfair when nuking ice). An Aureole also makes it trivial, but that's a pipe dream for 99.99% of the population.
(Anonymous)
Jan. 9th, 2009 05:44 pm (UTC)
Actually, wait, I've got it. I completely forgot about elemental grips.

Main: HQ Staff
Sub: Appropriate Elemental Grip (2 M.Acc)
Ammo: Phantom Tathlum (2 INT)
Head: Argute Mortarboard (7 skill)
Neck: Elemental Torque (7 skill)
Ear1: Elemental Earring (3 skill)
Ear2: Morion Earring +1 (2 INT)
Body: Scholar's Gown +1 (3 INT, 15 skill)
Hands: Genie Gages (8 skill)
Ring1: Tamas Ring (5 INT)
Ring2: Omega Ring (3 INT, 3 M.Acc)
Back: Gleeman's Cape (5 INT)
Waist: Argute Belt (5 INT, 2 M.Acc)
Legs: Mahatma Slops (8 INT)
Feet: Goliard Clogs (4 INT, 2 M.Acc)

With our base 272 skill we add 40 skill and 9 M.Acc for the equivalent of 321. From our 69 INT we add 37 with gear (106), and then 7 from a Cream Puff and 7 from Hailstorm for 120, taking us to 321/120.
(no subject) - slycer - Jan. 9th, 2009 06:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Jan. 11th, 2009 09:07 pm (UTC)
Can someone explain this to me?
I'm trying to digest this information...but I'm having a hard time understanding...

"1) +1 MACC ("Magic Accuracy" the stat) is equivalent to +1 Skill"

Understood, 1 MACC = 1 Skill.

"2) +1 MACC increases the chance to land the spell successfully by 0.5% if the chance to land successfully is below 50%. If the chance to land successfully is above 50%, +1 MACC increases the chance to land the spell successfully by 1.0%."

Ok...so at worst... 1 Skill/MACC = .5% Magical Hit rate.

Here's where I'm dumbfounded...

If I have 200 Skill...doesn't that mean I have 100% Magical Hit rate?

Please tell me I'm missing something important...
kanican
Jan. 11th, 2009 10:35 pm (UTC)
Re: Can someone explain this to me?
Try thinking about it logically reading through the tests. The tests only look at RELATIVE increases in the hit rate, not absolute increases. Notice that they test increases relative to a control. Remember resist rates can be capped as well - this post mainly talks about them being floored, but the converse can be true.

So 200 skill doesn't tell you ANYTHING about the resist rate on a mob on its own. These tests can only tell you about relative increases when you add skill from some base control. So if I were to tell you "I have 200 skill", this tells you nothing about the resist rate. If I were to tell you "I have 200 skill; someone with 180 skill landed 60% of his spells", then I would know my resist rate should be 80%. You need TWO pieces of information to know anything.

This concept is the entire point of the post. This is why the 320/120 estimation is still semi-valid - because these tests cannot tell you what amount of resist you need to nuke some HNM accurately. It can, however, tell you gear choices, which is why its useful.
jantra
Jan. 12th, 2009 08:19 pm (UTC)
I haven't posted on your LJ before, but I have been reading for some time. I felt like I needed to post on this guide, because I am curious.

You so highly rate SCH, while basically putting down BLMs. I am a 75BLM, and one of my best friends is a 75SCH. We often, jokingly, get into nuking contests and various other little nit-picks at each others jobs. Yet, in the end, it feels like I've been 'left out' as a job.

SCH can nuke as well as a BLM (and considering some BLM I see and some good SCH I see, out nuke), can do more DOT on its DOT spells (though the DOTs do not have an additional effect of stat-lowering like Burn), and of course can flip over and heal far better then a pathetic Cure III can.

I inquire to see if you have any particular feelings towards BLM. From reading your post, it seems like you look down on them. Do you believe BLM are simply out dated? Do they have their place? I have under my control at least one SCH and a load of BLM for Dynamis and Sky (as main BLM for the shells). I treat the SCH no differently then the BLMs other then their lack of Stun (Stun order).

SCH can be amazing, with wonderful versatility. What do you believe are their weaknesses, since you outline a SCH's strengths above.

Thank you, if you have time to respond. I am deeply curious.
jantra
Jan. 12th, 2009 08:30 pm (UTC)
Excuse me, I should have put "since you've been playing SCH" about your feeling towards BLM, as I know you've written quite a guide on BLMs.
(no subject) - kanican - Jan. 12th, 2009 10:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - jantra - Jan. 12th, 2009 11:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
matttheapostle
Jan. 13th, 2009 10:01 pm (UTC)
Bard Sub.
Okay. Just thinking. That's all.

+9 INT (Sage Etude)
-50 elemental resistance (Threnody)
+1 mp/tic (Ballad)

When you're in an HNM nuking situation, wouldn't this be more appropriate than rdm sub?
oneraith
Jan. 15th, 2009 09:15 am (UTC)
Re: Bard Sub.
I dont think you would have enough skill to land Threnody on anything with brd sub.
(Anonymous)
Jan. 17th, 2009 01:52 pm (UTC)
RDM enfeebles
First of all, thank you for explaining the tests done by Lodeguy. I saw the link on BG, couldn't understand anything about it, lol.

Now, from what you're trying to say, 320/120 INT is 'generally acceptable' and it works for HNM scenes. But how does this apply to RDM enfeebles? AKA slow2, paralyze2, etc etc? Can we too assume that 120MND is 'good' with 320 enfeeble skills? How would it affect my current enfeebling set ups? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Basically, for MND based debuffs, I have 3 stages of enfeebling.

First set, full MND build has 140MND + 295 enfeeble skills (Uses Wand + Shield)
Second set, 131MND + 295 enfeeble skills (Uses Staff + Grip)
Third set, 92MND + 330 enfeeble skills + 6 Macc (Uses Staff + Grip)

Also, is there any website that lists out how much MND each HNMs have?
kanican
Jan. 17th, 2009 10:10 pm (UTC)
Re: RDM enfeebles
Remember this general 320/120 thing was just eyeballed for years by BLMs. There is no reason for it to apply to anything else. Also, remember BLMs always nuke the element weakness by the HNM - RDMs have to land the same enfeebles whether they are weaknesses or not.

I would just get as much as possible personally. For things like Slow and Para I'd just go full MND. That's generally what RDMs tend to do.
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