Quick informal post in response to the MV patch update. See here if you have no clue what Modus Veritas (MV) is.
Direct Quote from SE Patch Notes:
After a helix spell is cast on a target, a predetermined period of time must elapse before Modus Veritas can be used effectively. Furthermore, certain Notorious Monsters will now demonstrate resistance to the effects of Modus Veritas.
I only wanted to post about this to try to alleviate some confusion on how this actually affects the "MV gank" strategy. Despite what most people are saying, the fact that you have to wait a certain period of time before a MV can be used after helix is cast does not change the strategy in any way. To repeat, the fact that you must wait "X" amount of time after a helix lands to use MV does NOT change the strategy. The strategy works equally well whether you go immediately after helix lands or if you were to even wait 10 seconds. What will kill this strategy is likely the "resistence to the effects of Modus Veritas", of which AV is likely included.
To explain the concept, say you land a helix that will land 60 seconds, then layer 9 MVs on it immediately at the same time (theoretical case here - there is obviously some timing error involved). The amount of time remaining on the helix after 9 MVs can be calculated:
60 seconds * (0.75)^9 =~ 4.5 seconds
Now let's say this new patch requires a 10 second wait period after the helix before any MVs can land (this is an extreme example... it's likely much much less):
(60 seconds - 10 seconds) * (0.75)^9 =~ 3.75 seconds
We find that the duration remaining after all MVs have landed is actually not that bad, even with a nasty 10 second delay on Modus Veritas usage... so what's going on?
It turns out that the most important thing is that all the Modus Veritas are landed as close to each other as possible. It does not matter when the MVs are started usually - only that they are landed very close to each other. To give you an extreme example of this, I'll give you 1 last example. Say this situation occurs pre-patch. 60 second helix, and 8 of the 9 helices are landed immediately after the helix lands, but the last person messes up and delays 2 seconds after everyone else. Let's see what happens:
[(60 seconds * (0.75)^8) - 2 seconds] * 0.75 =~ 3.01 seconds
By having that 1 person go late by just 2 seconds, the duration has been severely diminished - much more so than in the previous case where everyone went together, just 10 seconds late. I think if you logic this out in your head at how Modus Veritas works, this will make sense without the math.
Even with this, though, the strategy is basically useless since it's a near certainty that AV has some sort of resistance to Modus Veritas, making the "gank" useless. Considering the difficulty of pulling this strategy off, it's pretty much not worth it on anything that can be killed in a "normal" manner; however, I just wanted to point out that it still does work on things without this mysterious "resistance."
Cheers!
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________________________________________
Direct Quote from SE Patch Notes:
After a helix spell is cast on a target, a predetermined period of time must elapse before Modus Veritas can be used effectively. Furthermore, certain Notorious Monsters will now demonstrate resistance to the effects of Modus Veritas.
I only wanted to post about this to try to alleviate some confusion on how this actually affects the "MV gank" strategy. Despite what most people are saying, the fact that you have to wait a certain period of time before a MV can be used after helix is cast does not change the strategy in any way. To repeat, the fact that you must wait "X" amount of time after a helix lands to use MV does NOT change the strategy. The strategy works equally well whether you go immediately after helix lands or if you were to even wait 10 seconds. What will kill this strategy is likely the "resistence to the effects of Modus Veritas", of which AV is likely included.
To explain the concept, say you land a helix that will land 60 seconds, then layer 9 MVs on it immediately at the same time (theoretical case here - there is obviously some timing error involved). The amount of time remaining on the helix after 9 MVs can be calculated:
60 seconds * (0.75)^9 =~ 4.5 seconds
Now let's say this new patch requires a 10 second wait period after the helix before any MVs can land (this is an extreme example... it's likely much much less):
(60 seconds - 10 seconds) * (0.75)^9 =~ 3.75 seconds
We find that the duration remaining after all MVs have landed is actually not that bad, even with a nasty 10 second delay on Modus Veritas usage... so what's going on?
It turns out that the most important thing is that all the Modus Veritas are landed as close to each other as possible. It does not matter when the MVs are started usually - only that they are landed very close to each other. To give you an extreme example of this, I'll give you 1 last example. Say this situation occurs pre-patch. 60 second helix, and 8 of the 9 helices are landed immediately after the helix lands, but the last person messes up and delays 2 seconds after everyone else. Let's see what happens:
[(60 seconds * (0.75)^8) - 2 seconds] * 0.75 =~ 3.01 seconds
By having that 1 person go late by just 2 seconds, the duration has been severely diminished - much more so than in the previous case where everyone went together, just 10 seconds late. I think if you logic this out in your head at how Modus Veritas works, this will make sense without the math.
Even with this, though, the strategy is basically useless since it's a near certainty that AV has some sort of resistance to Modus Veritas, making the "gank" useless. Considering the difficulty of pulling this strategy off, it's pretty much not worth it on anything that can be killed in a "normal" manner; however, I just wanted to point out that it still does work on things without this mysterious "resistance."
Cheers!
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EDIT: (11/09/09 Update Notes) MV is patched on certain NMs. The fact that you have to wait "X" amount of time after a helix lands for MV to be used actually does not affect this strategy. However, NM resistance probably will and AV is almost certainly on the list of resistance mobs.
>>「Absolute Virtue」 新SS <<
Overview
For the better part of 4-5 months, myself and a team from Odin Server comprised of TeamKanican, LimitBreak, and BBQGold members have been working on the fabled "SCH MV Stack" trick, which basically involves stacking the little-known JA "Modus Veritas", leading to exponential damage increases. As I write, this I am incredibly disappointed as this strategy was essentially outed on BG by a group that failed to even kill anything of significance with this method (basically AV); however, I suppose this is the nature of things when you deal with potentially game-breaking oversights in mechanics.
I write this on September 26, 2009, a few hours after the method was outed on BG, and fully expect a ninja patch within a week maximum. As I actually no longer / rarely play, it's impossible for me to muster up the coordination necessary to make one last ditch attempt at this idea before patching. In an effort to hopefully see Absolute Virtue killed before this inevitable patch comes down in the near future, I hope that this information provided here can give any group with the resources the ability to quickly pull together an AV attempt.
________________________________________
________________________________________
( Videos - The Basics )
( Damage Potential Charts )
( AV Attempt )
( Current Issues with Timing )
( History of the MV Stack )
________________________________________
________________________________________
Conclusions
If any group out there actually has even 6 Scholars with the merits (even OK if some do not have them) and wishes to make a real attempt, feel free to comment or contact me via BG PMs. This post is very insufficient in fully explaining the mechanics of this process. This post goes over the "1-shot kill" method involving 9 Modus Veritas stacking; however, there is an alternative AV killing strategy that was proposed involving a combination of normal tanking and locking methods combined with less potent 7-8 MV attacks. This is also a potentially viable killing strategy.
Overall, I feel a bit disappointed in the original poster on BG who outed this method's choice to do so. Having worked with so many in the community behind the scenes in hopes that ANY of our groups could record a single AV kill, it is very disheartening to see one out the culmination of multiple groups' work over the course of half a year or more. Despite this, no one should be surprised that a secret of this magnitude would eventually be outed - my only regret would be if this were to be patched in the next few days without a recorded AV kill.
Regarding the "moral" issue, I feel that objectively, you could make the case that nothing about Modus Veritas is being abused in this strategy. It was clearly meant to stack - it was clearly meant to double damage. The best phrase for this instance for me would be "an oversight in game-mechanics". Unlike the Salvage Dupe exploit, nothing is really being used here that resulted in oddities (e.g. disband allies, triple items drop from the sky). Still, it was clear to us all that this would be patched if SE knew about it, and for this reason, you could make the case of inherent guilt - we knew it was wrong so we hid it basically.
Personally, I make no attempt to "morally" justify the use of this method. All I can say is when it comes to Absolute Virtue, any method is fine by me. I have always believed, and still do, that the only true way to beat Absolute Virtue is to cheat or exploit. I sincerely hope some group, any group, is able to figure this out before we all decide to move on from FFXI to bigger and better things. Until then, best wishes to you all.
Cheers.
________________________________________
________________________________________
>>「Absolute Virtue」 新SS <<
Overview
For the better part of 4-5 months, myself and a team from Odin Server comprised of TeamKanican, LimitBreak, and BBQGold members have been working on the fabled "SCH MV Stack" trick, which basically involves stacking the little-known JA "Modus Veritas", leading to exponential damage increases. As I write, this I am incredibly disappointed as this strategy was essentially outed on BG by a group that failed to even kill anything of significance with this method (basically AV); however, I suppose this is the nature of things when you deal with potentially game-breaking oversights in mechanics.
I write this on September 26, 2009, a few hours after the method was outed on BG, and fully expect a ninja patch within a week maximum. As I actually no longer / rarely play, it's impossible for me to muster up the coordination necessary to make one last ditch attempt at this idea before patching. In an effort to hopefully see Absolute Virtue killed before this inevitable patch comes down in the near future, I hope that this information provided here can give any group with the resources the ability to quickly pull together an AV attempt.
________________________________________
________________________________________
( Videos - The Basics )
( Damage Potential Charts )
( AV Attempt )
( Current Issues with Timing )
( History of the MV Stack )
________________________________________
________________________________________
Conclusions
If any group out there actually has even 6 Scholars with the merits (even OK if some do not have them) and wishes to make a real attempt, feel free to comment or contact me via BG PMs. This post is very insufficient in fully explaining the mechanics of this process. This post goes over the "1-shot kill" method involving 9 Modus Veritas stacking; however, there is an alternative AV killing strategy that was proposed involving a combination of normal tanking and locking methods combined with less potent 7-8 MV attacks. This is also a potentially viable killing strategy.
Overall, I feel a bit disappointed in the original poster on BG who outed this method's choice to do so. Having worked with so many in the community behind the scenes in hopes that ANY of our groups could record a single AV kill, it is very disheartening to see one out the culmination of multiple groups' work over the course of half a year or more. Despite this, no one should be surprised that a secret of this magnitude would eventually be outed - my only regret would be if this were to be patched in the next few days without a recorded AV kill.
Regarding the "moral" issue, I feel that objectively, you could make the case that nothing about Modus Veritas is being abused in this strategy. It was clearly meant to stack - it was clearly meant to double damage. The best phrase for this instance for me would be "an oversight in game-mechanics". Unlike the Salvage Dupe exploit, nothing is really being used here that resulted in oddities (e.g. disband allies, triple items drop from the sky). Still, it was clear to us all that this would be patched if SE knew about it, and for this reason, you could make the case of inherent guilt - we knew it was wrong so we hid it basically.
Personally, I make no attempt to "morally" justify the use of this method. All I can say is when it comes to Absolute Virtue, any method is fine by me. I have always believed, and still do, that the only true way to beat Absolute Virtue is to cheat or exploit. I sincerely hope some group, any group, is able to figure this out before we all decide to move on from FFXI to bigger and better things. Until then, best wishes to you all.
Cheers.
________________________________________
________________________________________
This was originally a private post written months ago as an AV strategy after we (as in Odin server) were given the "AV lock mechanism". I am now publicizing this post as the lock mechanism has been openly posted on BG. Ultimately, this strategy was never tried due to the fact that (1) it requires an immense number of bodies, and (2) it requires an even more immense amount of coordination to pull off within time limits. While I personally do not believe this strategy I wrote could be pulled off, perhaps someone can pick apart the better pieces, such as moving AV to the ramp.
Before continuing, I would like to state that this method does NOT use FFXIAPP ONEVENT and is thus technically "legit" as far as I can tell; however, I am unaware of any successful lock attempt that did not involve APP. Personally, I do not condemn the use of FFXIAPP for the purposes of testing AV - I see it as a personal choice which does not necessarily hurt the community in this instance. If you were to attempt this strategy with ONEVENT, I think you would fair at least half-way decently with 1-2 attempts.
On perhaps a lighter note, I find it funny that all the previous AV kills were considered not legit (glitches?), but that in order to "legitimately" lock AV reliably, you have to use a 3rd party APP. Just a small bit of irony.
Overview
We have verified the AV lock mechanism (6/13/09) given to us from an outside-server source:
One player must match the same 2 hour AV uses within a very small time frame (for instance, if AV uses Manafont, 1 BLM must match with his 2 hour to lock). The problem is the window of time to lock this is so small, that by the time "AV uses XXX" appears in the log window, the time has past. Because of this, it is not humanly possible to react to your log. This is why the many attempts to copy the SE video have failed.
( Read more... )
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________________________________________
Before continuing, I would like to state that this method does NOT use FFXIAPP ONEVENT and is thus technically "legit" as far as I can tell; however, I am unaware of any successful lock attempt that did not involve APP. Personally, I do not condemn the use of FFXIAPP for the purposes of testing AV - I see it as a personal choice which does not necessarily hurt the community in this instance. If you were to attempt this strategy with ONEVENT, I think you would fair at least half-way decently with 1-2 attempts.
On perhaps a lighter note, I find it funny that all the previous AV kills were considered not legit (glitches?), but that in order to "legitimately" lock AV reliably, you have to use a 3rd party APP. Just a small bit of irony.
Overview
We have verified the AV lock mechanism (6/13/09) given to us from an outside-server source:
One player must match the same 2 hour AV uses within a very small time frame (for instance, if AV uses Manafont, 1 BLM must match with his 2 hour to lock). The problem is the window of time to lock this is so small, that by the time "AV uses XXX" appears in the log window, the time has past. Because of this, it is not humanly possible to react to your log. This is why the many attempts to copy the SE video have failed.
( Read more... )
________________________________________
________________________________________
Overview
In light of recent events I feel like posting a more formal post would be a more proper method (or perhaps more proper exit). I wrote this on January 25, 2009 - a day before I can check if my account has been catagorized as a "temp ban" or "permanent ban" LM-17, with the exception of the conclusion essentially. I've just decided to keep this post private until the 26th when everyone collectively involved in the LM-17 catagory realizes their fate. This is to try to remove any bias that may occur once I know my own outcome.
This post is not only exceptionally long, but involves no screenshots; hence it may be somehow boring to borderline unreadable to you. I have tried to space it out as best as possible for you. I hope to cover the idea of exploits, both in the context of this recent duping issue, and in a more general sense. There is an obvious, yet unavoidable bias in that I am well-known for borderline exploits such as complex kiting and hate circumvention, so I hope that you, as the reader, keep this in mind when reading what I have to say before coming to your own conclusions.
Before beginning, I just want to say that I don't delete comments on my blog unless it is an obvious commercial. However you feel about this situation, you can comment freely without being censored. There are no doubt people outraged, and probably hoping that I and everyone else are banned and never come back, and I think in the interest of fairness, it would be improper to delete things like this, no matter how harsh.
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( Using a Friend's Account is an Exploit? )
( Is Kiting an Exploit? )
( Working as Intended? Or Exploit Glitch? A Historic Look at Absolute Virtue )
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Conclusions
The last few days have been quite eye-opening for someone like myself, who has been given an essential online "death sentence" in the form of an LM-17. I am writing this essentially hours before knowing whether or not a second chance will be given to me. After reflecting upon this situation as well as others in the past, I have reach the conclusion that anything I get, no matter how harsh some may think it is, is acceptable. The ToS is against me, and the recent public outcry is as well.
I look back upon my time in FFXI and feel like I've greatly enjoyed the experience. The character, my character, does hold meaning to me, even if it is just a bunch of virtual data stored somewhere on a server by SE. I know it's not mine legally, and I know because of this, it is at the mercy of SE at all times. Despite this, I've enjoyed things, which is the most important thing when you're playing a video game.
I hope that the discussion I have presented regarding the ToS, Code of Conduct, and the idea of "exploits" in general has been as unbiased as possible. There's always something to be learned, and this couldn't be more true in this instance where huge errors in judgment have been made. I'll end this post, perhaps my final post, with this.
We are all susceptible to errors in judgment. These errors come with consequences. Sometimes, they don't go your way, sometimes they can be severe, and sometimes you don't get a second chance. And really, that's OK.
Best wishes to you all,
and as of midnight January 26th, 2009, goodbye as well.
Kaeko
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Overview
Before I begin, I just want to say that more than any other post on this blog except possibly the very first one, this post will have more of an actual "blogger" feel to it. There will still be a lot of strategic things to talk about, but it will cover a bit more of my own personal opinion and just chronicle actual in-game events. The past week has had quite a few ups and downs regarding AV to say the least, and I feel that it is worth it to chronicle the happens of the whole situation while they are still fresh.
When it comes to the 3 year history of AV, Odin Server has been involved quite a bit, mainly due to one of the HNM LSs here, LimitBreak (LB), who actually discovered both the famous "Wall of Justice" glitch as well as the "Wynavs Glitch"; the latter, while less known, is actually the glitch that netted the vast majority of AV kills prior to this last week. As someone extremely interested in Absolute Virtue, I've been lucky enough in the past to witness these things as they happened, and once again, feel very lucky to take part in this 3rd set of AV kills (this time, directly).
In this post, I want to just chronicle how this kill strategy came to be, the time-line leading up to the first KC zerg kill by SapereAude, as well as the specifics of how we (as the 3 LS Odin "teamup") did our kills. While the strategy itself is quite useless now due to SE immediately patching it 5 days later, I think it's still interesting to note just what happened. In addition, I want to talk a bit about the next step in the continual search, or really tug of war between players and SE over AV.
My screenshots really suck and they all take place outside the gank alliance. Still, I hope you find the pictures entertaining. This post is really for the Odin players, especially those I was lucky enough to interact with over the past week.
Enjoy!
________________________________________
________________________________________
( How it all Started )
( Awsomeland and the Odin Team Up )
( General Strategy Overview )
( Ganking Timeline )
________________________________________
________________________________________
Conclusions
Since the AV emergency update, Souleater is now essentially useless on AV after ~10 swings, so the Souleater DRK kill strategy is essentially a thing of the past now. It is unlikely that another variation of gank will be the next successful strategy in my opinion due to AV's incredibly high defense and damage reduction. Really the key to Souleater was that it bypassed these things. There were quite a few drama threads about this ranging from "Nerf KC DRK" to "Do it SE's way!" to "SE sucks". I won't really go into them too much here as I want to focus the post on AV - you can see them in drama threads this time though.
One thing I do love about AV (I'm really stretching the term Silver Lining here) is the continual tug of war between the endgame community and SE. It is interesting that despite the creators' best efforts to keep the mob unkillable, the player base just always seems to find a way eventually if given even an ounce of leeway in any regard. I think it really speaks to the depth of knowledge and creativity (or perhaps just plain free time) of the player base to be able to continually thwart SE's efforts. It is sort of like a game within a game.
Illustrating this point, I find it convenient that AV was also patched to have full "Drawn In" ability now - something which I personally feel was a direct counter to any cheese involving kiting like that outlined on my blog actually quite recently. I'm not arrogant enough to think that SE specifically read my humble little LJ regarding a possible kill strategy using kiting and zoning cheese, but for some reason, if word gets out about any progress or potential progress with AV, SE will almost immediately react next patch without warning.
I'll conclude by just saying I'm so glad to be able to take part in what took place in the Odin endgame scene because of this AV strategy. I'm not normally a fan of teaming up, but it honestly was incredibly fun and shows that cooperation is not only possible and often times beneficial, but also that endgame doesn't have to be governed by shit-talk, drama, and e-penis size. Whatever breakthrough leads to the next set of AV kills, I just hope I'll be a part of it if I'm still in game.
________________________________________
________________________________________
Pic of the Day
Random Pics!
( Pics of the Day )
Drama Thread of the Day
It's all about AV this time. Here are the reactions of 2 very, very different playbases...
BG's Reaction to the AV Fix
Allakhazam's Reaction to the AV Fix
________________________________________
________________________________________
Before I begin, I just want to say that more than any other post on this blog except possibly the very first one, this post will have more of an actual "blogger" feel to it. There will still be a lot of strategic things to talk about, but it will cover a bit more of my own personal opinion and just chronicle actual in-game events. The past week has had quite a few ups and downs regarding AV to say the least, and I feel that it is worth it to chronicle the happens of the whole situation while they are still fresh.
When it comes to the 3 year history of AV, Odin Server has been involved quite a bit, mainly due to one of the HNM LSs here, LimitBreak (LB), who actually discovered both the famous "Wall of Justice" glitch as well as the "Wynavs Glitch"; the latter, while less known, is actually the glitch that netted the vast majority of AV kills prior to this last week. As someone extremely interested in Absolute Virtue, I've been lucky enough in the past to witness these things as they happened, and once again, feel very lucky to take part in this 3rd set of AV kills (this time, directly).
In this post, I want to just chronicle how this kill strategy came to be, the time-line leading up to the first KC zerg kill by SapereAude, as well as the specifics of how we (as the 3 LS Odin "teamup") did our kills. While the strategy itself is quite useless now due to SE immediately patching it 5 days later, I think it's still interesting to note just what happened. In addition, I want to talk a bit about the next step in the continual search, or really tug of war between players and SE over AV.
My screenshots really suck and they all take place outside the gank alliance. Still, I hope you find the pictures entertaining. This post is really for the Odin players, especially those I was lucky enough to interact with over the past week.
Enjoy!
________________________________________
________________________________________
( How it all Started )
( Awsomeland and the Odin Team Up )
( General Strategy Overview )
( Ganking Timeline )
________________________________________
________________________________________
Conclusions
Since the AV emergency update, Souleater is now essentially useless on AV after ~10 swings, so the Souleater DRK kill strategy is essentially a thing of the past now. It is unlikely that another variation of gank will be the next successful strategy in my opinion due to AV's incredibly high defense and damage reduction. Really the key to Souleater was that it bypassed these things. There were quite a few drama threads about this ranging from "Nerf KC DRK" to "Do it SE's way!" to "SE sucks". I won't really go into them too much here as I want to focus the post on AV - you can see them in drama threads this time though.
One thing I do love about AV (I'm really stretching the term Silver Lining here) is the continual tug of war between the endgame community and SE. It is interesting that despite the creators' best efforts to keep the mob unkillable, the player base just always seems to find a way eventually if given even an ounce of leeway in any regard. I think it really speaks to the depth of knowledge and creativity (or perhaps just plain free time) of the player base to be able to continually thwart SE's efforts. It is sort of like a game within a game.
Illustrating this point, I find it convenient that AV was also patched to have full "Drawn In" ability now - something which I personally feel was a direct counter to any cheese involving kiting like that outlined on my blog actually quite recently. I'm not arrogant enough to think that SE specifically read my humble little LJ regarding a possible kill strategy using kiting and zoning cheese, but for some reason, if word gets out about any progress or potential progress with AV, SE will almost immediately react next patch without warning.
I'll conclude by just saying I'm so glad to be able to take part in what took place in the Odin endgame scene because of this AV strategy. I'm not normally a fan of teaming up, but it honestly was incredibly fun and shows that cooperation is not only possible and often times beneficial, but also that endgame doesn't have to be governed by shit-talk, drama, and e-penis size. Whatever breakthrough leads to the next set of AV kills, I just hope I'll be a part of it if I'm still in game.
________________________________________
________________________________________
Pic of the Day
Random Pics!
( Pics of the Day )
Drama Thread of the Day
It's all about AV this time. Here are the reactions of 2 very, very different playbases...
BG's Reaction to the AV Fix
Allakhazam's Reaction to the AV Fix
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