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Enmity Testing (Part V)

Overview

The Enmity Table is currently filling out quite nicely; of the 358 spells and abilities which do not involve HP cured or damage, we've already filled out 100 CE values and 87 VE values in just a week's time.  I want to thank those who have contributed and encourage anyone interested to just pick a spell or ability not listed and do your own testing.  I realize the VE values are particularly difficult to pin-point; however, at this point, I am willing to take estimates using the "stop-watch" method.

In this post, I want to start going over certain abilities that alter enmity and pin-point exactly what effect they have on play.  This has really been one of those burning questions people have asked for a long time - it is only now that we can give concrete answers on how effective some of these moves are.  In particular, I'm going to work with Adventurer's Dirge, Foe Sirvente, and Sentinel (pre-Guardian).  The normal summary is below...

      -  The effect of Enmity Gear on Volatile Enmity (VE) is found
      -  The "Enmity Enhancement" of Sentinel is found
      -  The "upper limit" or "upper cap" of Enmity enhancement is found
      -  The effect of Adverturer's Dirge is found


Thanks to Elipse & Suwuside and Valyana, Dragonade, & Zozma for their help on testing some of these particular aspects used in these post.

Previous:  Enmity Testing (Part IV)

Next:  Enmity Testing (Part VI)

Enmity Table

EDIT:  Results for Foe Sirvente were removed due to errors

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Test 14A

Does Enmity Gear affect the Volatile Enmity Decay Rate?

      H0:  Enmity Gear does not affect the Volatile Enmity Decay Rate
      H1Enmity Gear does affect the Volatile Enmity Decay Rate

Testing Setup:

- 1 puller character with Silence access (BRD/WHM)
- 2 level 75 members with Dispel or the ability in question (RDM/WAR, BLM/RDM for Dispel)
- 1 character must have access to enmity gear, and both need to have access to "distance plug-in"
- Use a "level 0" monster - we chose Bumblebee in West Sarutabaruta
- This test requires a stop-watch!

- All characters must have either Stoneskin or Phalanx buffed prior to starting to ensure 0 damage
- Utsusemi shadows must be off when this experiment takes place

- Puller pulls with Silence while the 2 test characters move to 0.7 distance (same distance)
- Both test character 1 and 2 casts Dispel once (CE1 = 320, CE2 = 320)
- Test character 1 casts Cure 1 for 0 HP twice (CE1 = 322, CE2 = 320)
- Test character 2 uses Provoke using +10 Enmity Gear (CE1 = 322, CE2 = 321) - player 2 takes hate
- Document the amount of time required for player 1 to regain hate

- Have player 2 keep the +10 Enmity Gear on 
- Isolate the VE of player 2's Provoke at +10 Enmity Enhancement

      H0:  Provoke at +10 Enmity Enhancement divided by the amount of time to decay will equal ~60 VE/sec
      H1Provoke at +10 Enmity Enhancement divided by the amoutn of time to decay will not equal ~60 VE/sec


Results

Time Taken to Decay =  ~33 seconds
VE of Enhanced Provoke =  ~1980 VE
Decay Rate =  ~60 VE/sec


This test shows that the decay rate remained unchanged during the enmity enhancement.  The next test will try to find the formula or exact relationship between enmity enhancement and the VE value associated with spells and abilities.

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Test 14B

What is the effect of Enmity Gear on Volatile Enmity (VE)?

Testing Setup:

- 1 puller character with Silence access (BRD/WHM)
- 2 level 75 members with ability in question (RDM/WAR, BLM/RDM) - may require job change for gear
- 1 character must have access to enmity gear, and both need to have access to "distance plug-in"
- Use a "level 0" monster - we chose Bumblebee in West Sarutabaruta
- This test requires a stop-watch!

- All characters must have either Stoneskin or Phalanx buffed prior to starting to ensure 0 damage
- Utsusemi shadows must be off when this experiment takes place

- Puller pulls with Silence while the 2 test characters move to 0.7 distance (same distance)
- Both test characters 1 and 2 cast Dispel once (CE = 320 even each)
- Test character 1 casts Cure 1 for 0 HP twice (CE1= 322, CE2 = 320)
- Test character 2 uses Provoke using +10 Enmity (CE1 = 322, CE2 = 321)
- Document the amount of time taken for Player 1 to retake hate.

- Repeat the test using different amounts of Enmity Equipment
- Include both positive and negative enmity enhancements


Results

Enmity ChangeTime TakenVolatile Enmity
-2024~1440
-1027~1620
030~1800
+1033~1980
+2036~2160


These changes suggest that Enmity Gear affects VE in the exact same way as CE.  There is some error in this method of testing since we are using a stopwatch; however, because of the enmity change values we chose, the "seconds" should come out rather precisely.  I think the evidence is strong enough to show a solid relationship despite the lack of precision in using the "stop-watch" methodology.


Conclusions

Enmity Gear does not affect the VE Hate Decay Rate in any fashion.
Enmity Gear increases the VE of an ability in the same fashion as it affects CE - direct % increase.


                    Final CE = [Base CE] x { 1 + [Enmity Enhancement] / 100 }
                    Final VE = [Base VE] x { 1 + [Enmity Enhancement] / 100 }

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Test 15A

What is the "Enmity Enhancement" of Sentinel?

Testing Setup:

- 1 puller character with Silence access (BRD/WHM)
- 2 level 75 members with ability in question (RDM/PLD, BLM/RDM)
- Both characters need to have access to "distance plug-in"
- Use a "level 0" monster - we chose Bumblebee in West Sarutabaruta

- All characters must have either Stoneskin or Phalanx buffed prior to starting to ensure 0 damage
- Utsusemi shadows must be off when this experiment takes place

- Puller pulls with Silence while the 2 test characters move to 0.7 distance (same distance)
- Both test characters 1 and 2 cast Dispel once (CE = 320 even each)
- Test character 1 casts Cure 1 for 0 HP once (CE1= 321, CE2 = 320)
- Test character 2 uses Sentinel (CE1 = 321, CE2 = 321)
- Test character 2 casts Dispel once with Sentinel effect (CE1 = 321, CE2 = 321+?)

- Wait 2 minutes for any VE to decay fully
- Use various known CE value abilities to find the CE of the Enhanced Dispel


Results

CE of the Enhanced Dispel =  640 CE

This test only shows the CE portion of the enhancement; however, based on Test 14, we can safely assume that the VE will have a similar enhancement.  Because the CE of the Dispel was essentially doubled, this leaves the "Enmity Enhancement" of Sentinel to be an incredibly +100 Enmity!

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Test 15B


Is positive Enmity Enhancement "capped" at +100?

      H0:  Enmity Enhancement does not "cap" at +100
      H1Enmity Enhancement does "cap" at +100

Testing Setup:

- 1 puller character with Silence access (BRD/WHM)
- 2 level 75 members with Dispel or the ability in question (RDM/PLD, BLM/RDM for Dispel)
- 1 character must have access to enmity gear, and both need to have access to "distance plug-in"
- Use a "level 0" monster - we chose Bumblebee in West Sarutabaruta

- All characters must have either Stoneskin or Phalanx buffed prior to starting to ensure 0 damage
- Utsusemi shadows must be off when this experiment takes place

- Puller pulls with Silence while the 2 test characters move to 0.7 distance (same distance)
- Both test character 1 and 2 casts Dispel once (CE1 = 320, CE2 = 320)
- Test character 1 casts Cure 1 for 0 HP once (CE1 = 321, CE2 = 320)
- Test character 2 uses Sentinel (CE1 = 321, CE2 = 321)
- Test character 2 uses Dispel using +10 Enmity Gear (CE1 = 321, CE2 = 321+?)

- Wait 2 minutes for any VE to fully decay
- Use various known CE value abilities to find the CE of the Enhanced Dispel

      H0:  The CE of the enhanced Dispel will be greater than 640 CE
      H1The CE of the enhanced Dispel will be 640 CE

The results show that adding + Enmity Gear has no effect on adding CE (and by Test 14, pressumably VE as well).  This means that Enmity Enhancement is indeed "upper capped" at +100 Enmity.


Conclusions

The "Enmity Enhancement" of Sentinel is the equivalent of +100 Enmity.
"Enmity Enhancement" by special status or gear has an "upper cap" of  +100 Enmity.


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Test 16

What is the effect of Adverturer's Dirge (LVL1) on Enmity Enhancement?

Testing Setup:

- 1 puller character with Silence and Adverturer's Dirge (LVL1) access (BRD/WHM)
- 2 level 75 members with Dispel or the ability in question (RDM/WAR, BLM/RDM for Dispel)
- 1 character must have access to enmity gear, and both need to have access to "distance plug-in"
- Use a "level 0" monster - we chose Bumblebee in West Sarutabaruta

- All characters must have either Stoneskin or Phalanx buffed prior to starting to ensure 0 damage
- Utsusemi shadows must be off when this experiment takes place

- Puller pulls with Silence while the 2 test characters move to 0.7 distance (same distance)
- Both test character 1 and 2 casts Dispel once (CE1 = 320, CE2 = 320)
- Have the BRD use Adventurer's Dirge on character 1
- Test character 1 casts Dispel once with Dirge effect on
- Find the CE gained by the enhanced Dispel using various known CE value abilities

- Repeat Test 14A to determine if Decay Rate is affected by Dirge


Results

CE of Enhanced DIspel =  288 CE
Effect on Decay Rate =  No

The results show that Adventurer's Dirge grants a direct -10 Enmity Enhancement at level one.  Based on the description of the spell on the Merits menu, adding points into this song will decrease the Enmity Enhancement by -3 each time for a total of -16 Enmity at maxed level 3.


Conclusions

Adventurer's Dirge does not affect the Volatile Enmity Decay Rate.
Adventurer's Dirge LVL1 grants a player a straight -10 Enmity Enhancement.


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Conclusions

Here is the summary of findings for those who don't want to read through the testing...

      -  Enmity Gear does not affect the VE Hate Decay Rate in any fashion.
      -  Enmity Gear increases the VE of an ability in the same fashion as it affects CE - direct % increase.

                    Final CE = [Base CE] x { 1 + [Enmity Enhancement] / 100 }

                    Final VE = [Base VE] x { 1 + [Enmity Enhancement] / 100 }

      -  The "Enmity Enhancement" of Sentinel is the equivalent of +100 Enmity.
      -  "Enmity Enhancement" by special status or gear has an "upper cap" of  +100 Enmity.

      -  Adventurer's Dirge does not affect the Volatile Enmity Decay Rate.
      -  Adventurer's Dirge LVL1 grants a player a straight -10 Enmity Enhancement.


I think that the implications of these tests show that Enmity Gear has a drastic effect on "hate" in this game, especially when stacked.  We now know almost exactly how the Enmity Enhancement process works in the game, which will be a huge aid to just about any job which focuses on holding hate or keeping enmity values low.  Being able to actually now quantify the Enmity Enhancements gives a better picture of what gear tradeoffs are warranted and which are not.  The only question left about Enmity Enhancement is the "lower cap" - although intuitively, it should probably be -100.

The testing has really started to show some good results now.  I feel that the Enmity Table should be relatively complete soon, and we are now ready to start dealing with the most difficult aspects of Enmity - Damage, Cures, and the effects of Distance.

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Comments

( 19 comments — Leave a comment )
vyvyanffxi
Nov. 16th, 2007 12:16 am (UTC)
You are a plethora of win.
akroma_ffangel
Nov. 16th, 2007 01:28 am (UTC)
The "Enhances Sentinel" on the Feet effect the Dmg. Reduction Range at which Sentinel starts. With the boots, the damage reduction starts @ 100%. If you Sentinel and then get hit with any Physical attack Directly after, it will always be 0Dmg. If you do not wear the boots, the reduction starts somewhere around 80%. The reduction also wears off over the time of Sentinel, and I have found the boots also effect the lower tear of the Decay. 100-40% instead of 80-20%.

Not to say that it doesn't effect hate, but I am positive that it effects what I stated above.
(Anonymous)
Nov. 16th, 2007 06:16 pm (UTC)
I always thought it was 90% down to 40% without boots and 100%-50% with boots on during sentinal first usage.

~Elipse
akroma_ffangel
Nov. 16th, 2007 10:46 pm (UTC)
You might be right, my numbers where sort of off the top of my head, but the idea got across =/
(Anonymous)
Nov. 16th, 2007 01:36 am (UTC)
Errata
There seems to be an error in the description of Test 14A. The test doesn't describe character 2 using provoke at all, but rather dispel.

The description of Test 14B is a little vague. Does character 2 take off the enmity gear after using provoke or leave it on.

Keep up the good work!
kanican
Nov. 16th, 2007 03:19 am (UTC)
Re: Errata
Made the minor correction on 14A.

For Test 14B, whether or not enmity gear is taken off or not does not matter. This is because it was just shown in 14A that the decay rate is not affected by enmity enhancement gear.

Thanks!
(Anonymous)
Nov. 16th, 2007 02:01 am (UTC)
sentinel's enmity
as a paladin its pretty well known that when we activate sentinel, it pulls a large amount of hate on its own. without knowing the VE or CE, how do you know that sentinel is +100 enmity? I believe you, however that part is missing in the test. if your spiking the enmity that is. Are you just using dispel, then waiting an extended period of time for the VE to wear off and see how hate lands?
kanican
Nov. 16th, 2007 03:21 am (UTC)
Re: sentinel's enmity
When you do CE tests, it is implied that you wait a period of time for VE to wear off. Whatever the VE of Sentinel and Dispel is, it is bound to wear off in 30ish seconds.

As long as you wait that 30ish seconds before beginning to ramp up your hate to see how much hate was there, the VE of Sentinel and Dispel is irrelevant.

I'll put the "wait XX amount of time" on the testing, but it should be implied based on previous tests.
(Anonymous)
Nov. 16th, 2007 06:55 pm (UTC)
Enmity Loss From Melee Hits
I saw the numbers for enmity loss, and I'm not sure if it was said and I missed it or not, but does +enmity reduce the amount of enmity loss from taking a melee hit?

For ease, say you're hit for 100, you're CE is dropped 160-166, but say you have +30 enmity and you get hit for 100, would you lose 112-116 CE, a 30% decrease in enmity loss?
kanican
Nov. 16th, 2007 07:02 pm (UTC)
Re: Enmity Loss From Melee Hits
You can test this on your own if you can get a couple of friends. For us, we're taking this 1 step at a time. Damage is the most complicated part of this entire thing, so we're saving it until the end to make that sort of complicated testing as easy as possible.

My gut instinct is no it wouldn't affect anything though.
(Anonymous)
Nov. 16th, 2007 07:12 pm (UTC)
Re: Enmity Loss From Melee Hits
None of my friends, even my tank friends find this NEARLY as epic as I do.

Assuming that +enmity doesn't effect CE loss from a melee hit, you should theoretically be able to clear out some +enmity in slots for more +hp during recast downtimes and cure yourself for more hate, switching back to +enmity for spells and abilities.

Keep goin'! This is the most excited I've been about my PLD in awhile!
(Anonymous)
Nov. 16th, 2007 07:24 pm (UTC)
Re: Enmity Loss From Melee Hits
Also implies you can remove all your enmity gear during sentinal for max hp and cure yourself because you're already at capped enmity.
(Anonymous)
Nov. 16th, 2007 07:43 pm (UTC)
Re: Enmity Loss From Melee Hits
Going back and thinking about it, you probably don't lose any less CE from melee hits with +enmity, because that would mean while Sentinel is active, you're losing no hate at all.

I can't think of a specific example because I've never paid attention to if I've lost hate during Sentinel or not. If Sentinel is near the end of it's duration and you get hit with a Triple Attack with a crit or 2, dropping your TE below a melees, I'm sure you can still lose hate to one that's been building his/her TE over time.

Also, unless Guardian effects VE decay, it'd be completely useless if you lost no CE during Sentinel.


Sorry if I'm replying with stuff you've already have thought of. ^_^; Like I said, I'm excited about this.
(Anonymous)
Nov. 16th, 2007 07:52 pm (UTC)
-Enmity Cap
Thanks so much for performing these tests and making the results public. This is really some fantastic information.

I just wanted to point out one thing regarding Enmity enhancement caps. You made this comment: "The only question left about Enmity Enhancement is the "lower cap" - although intuitively, it should probably be -100." Actually, I'd expect the cap for Enmity reduction to be much lower than 100, since Enmity -100 would effectively mean 0 hate gained for any action. Unlike Enmity +100, this would be game-breaking.

Thanks again, and please keep up the great work!
-Teratron
(Anonymous)
Nov. 17th, 2007 01:03 am (UTC)
/bow
Don't really have anything useful to add regarding the results found, except to say that this is the most exciting development in FFXI in the longest time. Armed with this information, I'm really looking forward to picking up my PLD66 again, with revised macros and gearing.

* * *

After you BG PM clarification, I now better understand your reluctance to allow the information onto the FFXIclopedia is out of fear that any mistake in this collection of information would be propagated and introduced during copying while the corrections may not. Thank you for that.

I still think much of the information is solid enough that it can be safely condensed and put on that site (maybe in a sub-page to Enmity, something like "Enmity: In-Depth"). However, seeing how the information on this blog is so organized, there's no real pressing need at the moment.

BTW, I've created my own "cross-site" license for my wiki entries, so if my writing is up to BG Wiki's standard, anything I create for the FFXIclopedia can just be copied over to BG wiki. If Ashira is too worn out from the testing and information gathering, I'd gladly volunteer to write the wiki article for both sites.

Thank you again--for testing enmity, for gathering info, for publicizing the results, and most of all, for defining the methodology needed.

- Itazura
(Anonymous)
Dec. 1st, 2007 09:40 am (UTC)
Circular Argument for Test 14
Just reading through your tests here and loving every moment of it, but I did have a problem with test 14 as it was rather circular.
Test 14A uses the fact that +enmity gear should give a direct % increase to VE (which is not yet proven but is the topic of Test 14B) to prove that VE will still decrease at a rate of 60VE/sec.
Test 14B uses 14A to prove itself, which is a flawed argument since 14A fully depended on 14B being true. This is of course likely a small issue easily rectified, but I felt it should be addressed.

Cheers!!
(Anonymous)
Jan. 20th, 2008 12:47 am (UTC)
Enmiy
To think about this chart it seems true. I think to support your enmity statements is Warrior Armor. It adds basic enmity and one piece adds a enhancing provoke effect. What gets me is how much does that effect the provoke , and other types of armor that enhances "Job abilities". If you can give me this id be helpful. My email is cloud3332@aol.com
(Anonymous)
Jan. 20th, 2008 12:47 am (UTC)
Enmiy
To think about this chart it seems true. I think to support your enmity statements is Warrior AF Armor. It adds basic enmity and one piece adds a enhancing provoke effect. What gets me is how much does that effect the provoke , and other types of armor that enhances "Job abilities". If you can give me this id be helpful. My email is cloud3332@aol.com
(Anonymous)
Oct. 16th, 2008 01:40 am (UTC)
Charisma
If I may ask, do you have any opinion on CHR for gaining/holding/slowing the loss of enmity? In all the pages I've read, SE has never implied this but people still spread their ideas on it. I've had people swear +CHR makes sustaining enmity harder (which I think any bard would argue.) or +CHR means the mob 'notices' you more and so you hold hate easier.

Thankyou for your amazing work and testing.
( 19 comments — Leave a comment )